Author: Xiaosong HU

Translator: Xiaosong HU

Reviewer: Scarlett LI

Source: Content Guild Translation

Unknowingly, we have entered the second half of 2024. Looking back at the global Web3 ecosystem in the first half of the year, we experienced the inscription craze, the narrative of the BTC L2 network and the approval of BTC's spot ETF in the first quarter. In the second quarter, notable events included the meme phenomenon in the Solana ecosystem, the rise of the Ton ecosystem, and the submission of ETH spot ETFs. The most exciting and long-lasting topic for developers has been the AO protocol announced by Arweave and the three live meetings held by Arweave in Berlin. With the subsequent announcements of the AO protocol, the AO economic model, and the integration of AI with AO, a wave of excellent projects and teams has emerged in the AO ecosystem. As the largest Chinese community incubated by Arweave, PermaDAO has decided to continue the "PermaDAO 1-on-1 Interview" series. We aim to chat with the key leaders of various projects about Ar and AO stories. The goal is to share their perspectives and experiences, providing more information about Western projects and ecosystems to the Chinese community, and potentially offering some reference cases and templates for those looking to go all-in on Web3 during the bear market.

For this interview, we are speaking with Mateo Bastidas, Head of Developer Relations (Dev-Rel) at Apus Network. Apus Network is building towards a decentralized, trustless GPU network dedicated to providing reliable, efficient, and low-cost computational power for AI training and inference. By leveraging Arweave's permanent onchain storage, we offer an open-source AO extension that provides a deterministic execution environment for GPUs with an economic incentive model for decentralized AI using AO and Apus tokens. As I write this, their official Twitter has announced that their Proof of Concept (POC) will go live on July 15th, marking a significant milestone in building a decentralized and trustless GPU network on @aoTheComputer!

Part I: Regarding Apus Network

Q1: Hi! Mateo! Could you please introduce the background of Apus Network and how it was established?

A: The Apus Network originated from the founders' earlier involvement in PPIO, (Note: PPIO is a technology outsourcing company that initially focused on developing distributed storage and data transmission solutions. Its products are designed to provide efficient and secure data storage and transmission services to meet the needs of different applications.) initially an outsourcing company. However, Apus Network has since pivoted significantly towards edge computing and GPU cloud services, alongside developing various AI products. As a result, the core team possesses extensive expertise in GPU technology and AI. Since the second half of last year, Apus Network has been exploring decentralized approaches, aiming to leverage decentralized and trustless methods for GPU and AI applications.

Q2: What are some significant milestones in the history of Apus Network? What is the future vision and plan for Apus Network？

A: Since the second half of last year, Apus Network has been actively engaged in developing lots of proof-of-concept (POC) products, particularly focusing on AI inference within the GPU marketplace. This initiative included conducting POCs and, earlier this year, we were lucky to discover AO, which launched its testnet in February. This discovery has been crucial for us, as we believe AO is the ideal platform for quickly bringing our decentralized GPU network to fruition. Starting immediately after the testnet launch this year, we have been conducting various POCs on AO, as well as engagements with Sam. During March and April, we have engaged in many online discussions, culminating in our attendance at events like Berlin, which marked significant milestones for us. Looking ahead, our vision is centered on AO, specifically focusing on trustless GPU infrastructure, echoing sentiments shared by Sam in his videos. This is our primary area of focus. Additionally, following thorough discussions with Sam, we plan to build an incentivized model on top of the GPU network to foster AI development. This aligns with our innovative ideas and represents our future vision.

Tweet link: English introduction on implementing a trustless model benchmarking system on AO

Q3: How many full-time staff members are currently working at Apus Network, and what are the ways for others to get involved? How do you incentivize participation?

A: Currently, we have a core team of approximately seven full-time members, all working remotely from various global locations. Many of us have backgrounds from PPIO. Our core team came together organically, either through personal recommendations or online recruitment, drawn by a shared enthusiasm for web3 and AO. We share a common vision and are incentivized through token rewards based on contributions, fostering a participatory approach akin to web3 principles. This incentive structure extends beyond full-time staff to include part-time members, consultants, and early advisors, all motivated to contribute to our project through web3 incentivization methods.

Q4: You just mentioned that you will use your own tokens for distribution in the future, and you also mentioned that you will give them to part-time employees. Could you please expand on this and tell us more?

A: At present, we are mainly recruiting backend engineers and GPU compiler engineers, but there is no clear demand for other positions (such as mods or community managers) at this stage. As for our own token, we are still designing the entire token economic model, so therefore we have barely information to share for now.(laughs).

Q5: In your opinion, what is the biggest challenge that Apus Network faces?

A: Ensuring our GPU project's decentralization is crucial. Executing GPU operations in a decentralized manner poses a significant challenge, necessitating a deeper understanding of system-level intricacies. Deep knowledge and awareness of GPU drivers are crucial for this endeavor. Fortunately, our extensive experience in GPU cloud services has provided us with substantial expertise, both in terms of GPU scalability and talent development. This background positions us well to undertake this initiative effectively.

Q6: Many people used to compare Arweave with Filcoin. After the launch of the AO protocol, many people liked to compare AO with ICP. There were also many very fierce opinions on Twitter. What do you think of this phenomenon?

A: Arweave and Filecoin, which primarily focus on storage within the web3 ecosystem. Naturally, comparisons arise between these platforms and AO. AO, however, operates at the computational layer, building a network on top of Arweave's perpetual storage. Similarly, ICP also adopts a computational approach, facilitating comparisons between these platforms. This natural phenomenon underscores the importance of differentiation—highlighting how each project distinguishes itself from competitors.

AO benefits from its inherent alignment with Arweave's storage capabilities, establishing a close technical and tokenomic relationship. Unlike other platforms that often rely solely on a single token for governance, AO and Arweave maintain separate tokens while tightly integrating their technologies. This interdependence creates a unique and sophisticated design, offering significant differentiation in the market landscape.

Part II: Regarding Mateo Bastidas

Q7: Now I would like to talk about you. Could you share with us your educational background and career experience?

A: I am a double major in Computer Science and Cognitive Science at Yale University, currently entering my fourth year. As part of my education, I am completing two theses, one for each degree.

My interests in computer science are broad and encompass AI, NLP, computer systems, software engineering, and cryptographically secured information.

My cognitive science interests focus on mental representations—how the brain stores and processes information, understanding information loss functions, information storage locations, and triggers.

My most recent cognitive science work at the Cognitive and Nueral Computations lab at Yale investigates whether the brain encodes soft versus rigid objects on a continuous scale, whether these objects are encoded by the same part of the brain, and what information is relevant in determining whether an object is perceived as soft or rigid.

My most recent work with Yale Institute of Network Science entails data collection from Ethereum in implemented in combination with address clustering heuristics to enhance a deFI credit scoring mechanism.

I am the co-president of the Yale Blockchain Club looking to share my insights to the new members in a way that I hope will make them feel as engaged and immersed as I do, which in the past has failed due to lack of structure.

I have experience with VC speciffically focused on crypto and web3 markets. It is here I have developed a wide knowledge base of the industry, leaning into analytics of emerging narratives such as GameFI, SocialFI, and AI Agents/New Data Economy.

Mateo Bastidas, Head of Dev-Rel at Apus Network

Q8: You are excellent. How did you come into contact with Arweave and how did you join Apus Network?

A: I was first exposed to Arweave last year through a course at Yale that covered developments in on-chain data storage, mentioning Arweave among other solutions like Filecoin. At that time, Arweave was in its infancy.

Recently, I gained direct experience with the Arweave ecosystem by analyzing their cookbooks and other documentation. I attended their hackathon in Berlin, gaining firsthand exposure to the core team and ecosystem members. Additionally, I participated in exclusive events such as Arweave Day, where new projects were presented.

I had the pleasure of meeting Sam, the founder of Arweave, and facilitated conversations with him to collaborate with Apus Network to support accelerated AI solutions in their ecosystem.

Q9: I would like to ask a slightly heavier question. We know that the entire industry is currently in a bear market. Can you give some advice to those who want to enter Web3 but are still waiting and watching?

A: Then I have listed a few "personal opinions" based on my own experience, just for reference for those who want to enter Web3:

Approach Web3 Holistically:

Immerse Yourself:

Develop an Organic Network:

Q10: You are so outstanding, how do you usually deal with the pressure between life and work?

A: I would not describe my life and work as pressured but rather fast-paced, which I appreciate as it has allowed me to develop into an adaptable and efficient worker, built upon a foundation of willingness to learn. I have always been a curious person, and the pace and pressure of work keep me engaged and thrilled. While my current situation differs from the school year, it feels more rewarding in many ways. The exposure to the industry is surprisingly passionate, a sentiment that can be harder to find on campus, despite the equivalent magnitudes of dedication and effort. The unique energy and commitment I encounter in my work environment make the experience truly special and fulfilling.

Part III: Regarding Arweave/AO Meeting in Berlin

Q11: Can you share with us a little bit about the Arweave in Berlin conference?

A: I believe Arweave’s sixth anniversary celebration was hosed in Berlin, which reportedly drew a large crowd this year, including numerous project teams. The event lasts about one to two weeks, featuring intensive activities such as hackathons and parties. The ecosystem appeared highly active and vibrant, especially with the exciting announcement about AO. There's a shared enthusiasm for AO to progress swiftly and fulfill Sam's initial vision, generating considerable excitement among participants.

Q12: What is the biggest difference between this year's Arwevae in Berlin and previous years?

A: I didn't attend last year, but I heard that this year's attendance and overall quality was significantly higher. This was largely due to Arweave's mainnet launch and tokenomic announcements coinciding with the conference on June 13th, which marked a major event. It garnered global attention, and we were able to witness it live through streaming. The atmosphere at the event was incredibly vibrant and enthusiastic, which was palpable even through remote viewing, conveying a sense of excitement that was truly remarkable.

Q13: During the Berlin conference, Sam held three live broadcasts. Among them, the model of AO tokens was the most concerned. Many people think that the AO incentives given to AR holders are less than STETH. This is unfair. What do you think?

A: I believe the design is quite ingenious. It's essential to support the AR ecosystem because AO relies heavily on AR. Without AR, AO cannot function properly; hence, support is indispensable. However, we must also consider that the largest community currently is the Ethereum community, particularly those involved in staking ETH with stETH, which generates yield through annualized returns.

Currently, holding AR at the top layer does not yield any returns. Therefore, the proposed design aims to utilize the yield from assets like ETH and stETH, including future cross-chain yields such as Solana, to support the AO ecosystem. This approach ensures that capital with yield, representing a larger share, supports AO's ecosystem, which I find to be reasonable. After all, it's about using real assets to support AO's ecosystem effectively.

Q14: What do you think of the launch of the AO protocol? What can it do that other public chains and projects can not do?

A: AO fundamentally serves as an infinitely scalable platform for parallel computing. Its design ingeniously leverages the strengths of act-oriented and parallel languages, positioning it to potentially challenge existing computational capabilities of layer-one chains like Solana and Ethereum in the future. This potential has garnered significant anticipation from the community.

Looking ahead, there is hope that AO, as a computational layer blockchain, can compete and excel among major public chains. The economic model draws inspiration from Bitcoin, featuring a deflationary mechanism, which is anticipated to support the entire ecosystem robustly.

Overall, there is widespread aspiration within the community for AO to join the ranks of top-tier public chains soon. This collective goal drives optimism for what lies ahead.

Part IV: Regarding PermaDAO and everVision

Q15: PermaDAO is the largest Arweave community in the entire Chinese ecosystem, Have you heard of PermaDAO or everVision before?

A: Outprog is a very familiar friend to our team. Since we fully committed to web3 last year, we've been actively participating in web3 events for a whole year. Particularly notable were our attendances at Token2049 in Singapore, where we were fortunate to join Outprog's side event hosted by Arweave, co-organized by EverVision and PermaDAO in 2022 and 2023. Each time, we have preserved group photos, and I often recall these encounters when discussing with Sam. While Sam attended once before, he missed last year due to visa issues. This year, I anticipate a grander event. Our longstanding friendship and shared experiences with Outprog influenced our decision to choose AO, as familiarity played a significant role in our selection process.

Q16: So how do you think Apus Network can help PermaDAO develop?

A: I believe it's crucial for Apus Network to act as a bridge supporting the Asian ecosystem community for AO and Arweave. To achieve broader adoption and engagement, especially within the developer community, we may need to focus on expanding our online community efforts. Increasing AO's visibility and accessibility among developers, primarily in Asia but inclusive of global outreach, requires concerted efforts across various language capabilities and regions. We should spare no effort in promoting understanding of AO, AR, and PermaDAO among programmers.

Q17: In your view, how should PermaDAO and Apus Network collaborate in the future?

A: Apus Network can greatly benefit from the robust support of PermaDAO. Hosting AMAs on Twitter and actively participating in events like Token2049 in Singapore and hackathons are essential. Additionally, we can organize workshops where we provide insights into using our Trustless GPU SDK, empowering developers to build applications on our platform.

Overall, our goal is to enhance developer awareness and involvement in Apus Network, fostering a vibrant and supportive community worldwide.

Q18: How do you perceive the team and business development of everVision?

A: everVision demonstrates a robust team dynamic with a clear focus on innovation and execution. Their team exhibits strong leadership and technical prowess, which aligns well with their strategic vision. In terms of business development, everVision has shown impressive growth, expanding their market reach and forming strategic partnerships. Looking ahead, their proactive approach to new market opportunities and product diversification positions them favorably for sustained growth in a competitive landscape.

Q19: We see that Arweave Oasis has been established in China, Arwevae in India, and Arweave in the Philippines have all been established one after another. How will you support the development of these Asia’s communities?

A: I believe our support strategy should align closely with the community. This involves organizing events together and promoting our development tools (like dosDK) for community advocacy. As a project team, we should also support community-led hackathons and sponsor such activities. Collaboration is absolutely a key for us so that we could engage more such as hosting AMAs, both online and offline events, and other community-centric initiatives. These activities are common and effective, to allow us to accommodate various needs and contributions from a community perspective.

Q20: Thank you for your time, and last question.Lastly, is there anything else you would like to say to the audience?

A: We are truly grateful for the opportunity to have had several face-to-face discussions with Sam in Berlin, which built upon our previous online interactions. Meeting Sam in person allowed us to exchange many intriguing ideas on how to build a trustless GPU network for AI on AO. Sam provided constructive feedback and suggestions that have bolstered our confidence in advancing Apus Network's long-term vision and mission.

Moving forward, we encourage all listeners to follow us on Twitter at apus_network and participate in our projects. We have upcoming community engagement activities and initiatives aligned closely with AO's progress, aimed at fostering ecosystem development. We invite all viewers and listeners to join us in contributing to AO's ecosystem, together making meaningful contributions.

Summary

I believe that Mateo Bastidas' background and education are a reflection of the excellent team at Apus Network and a representative of many outstanding entrepreneurs in the Arweave/AO ecosystem. We look forward to more surprises and exciting news from Apus Network, and we also anticipate that PermaDAO and Apus Network will spark more collaborations, contributing to the AO ecosystem as a whole!

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Disclaimer: This article does not represent the views of PermaDAO. PermaDAO does not provide investment advice or endorse any projects. Readers should comply with their country's laws when engaging in Web3 activities.

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